If readers go to blog of San Diego they can find the piece on Sainz' missing E-mail in which he uses the F word to describe certain council members and members of the City Attorney's office. Reporting that E-mail to COO Goldstone cost Assistant COO Rick Reynolds his job. What is worse is that Kittle of the U/T wanted the I.P. addresses of members of the City Attorney's office and it is still not clear that he wasn't given them. Ethics clearly don't apply to the Mayor and his top staff, Kris Mitchell, Fred Sainz, Jay Goldstone or even Rich Snapper.

Posted by Ian Trowbridge | reply to this comment
April 23, 2008 5:46 pm

When is OK for a public official (who is paid by the taxpayer) to say "F...you" to anyone? How stupid can you be when you're running for public office? And by the way Sanders...it's not a private conversation when you say it in public!

Posted by MCS | reply to this comment
April 23, 2008 5:59 pm

I am not generally overly praiseworthy of the mayor but I have to give the guy kudos on this one... I think we all like to pretend like we don't do stuff like this and it certainly wasn't something his mom would be proud of. But please, who hasn't flipped the bird to someone who cut them off on the freeway or stole their parking spot. Comparatively, Steve Francis has been running all sorts of nasty about the mayor on tv and over the phone and radio, that is well documented (well kind of... campaign coverage has been odd this year the mayor is somewhat right onthat). I think this just shows another side of the mayor, especially the part where he accepts responsibility for his actions (this is a first). Maybe he is growing on the job afterall and maybe the F-bomb signals hope for change... Just maybe.

Posted by Basic Civics | reply to this comment
April 23, 2008 6:25 pm

and why arent ip addresses public records/

Posted by not ian | reply to this comment
April 23, 2008 6:30 pm

I'm disappointed that the mayor said it, but who isn't thinking it? Francis is smarmy and untrustworthy. With his weird boy scout mail piece and the cartwheel commercials... he seems obsessed with becoming the mayor. What he would do with the office is truly terrifying. Who would elect someone who changes his politics based on what he thinks will get him elected rather than on what he actually believes?

Posted by Live There | reply to this comment
April 23, 2008 6:38 pm

First...why does the public need ip addresses? What should the punishment for using the F word be? And TV is pretty PG, but I've found real life is R rated. Most people I know speak an "R-rated" language. Just don't subject my kids to it and I don't really care.

Posted by Ann | reply to this comment
April 23, 2008 7:00 pm

Flannery's blog is an unreliable joke, which is why he won't allow comments by his readers. He knows that his supposedly source-based accusations would fall apart if open to discussion. Come on, Pat, allow comments. Do you have the guts? And Ian, do you agree? Wouldn't you like to see Pat allow comments?

Posted by Say, Ian | reply to this comment
April 23, 2008 7:07 pm

4. not ian wrote on April 23, 2008 6:30 PM: "and why arent ip addresses public records/" ... The same reason social security numbers and maiden names are not public record - it could cause major security lapses. Were you serious when you posted that comment????? Any 5th grader could figure that one out.

Posted by Billy Bob Henry | reply to this comment
April 23, 2008 7:14 pm

Although I am not a lawyer I believe the IP addresses should be withheld because for security reasons in particular. The withholding of the addresses far outweighs the public's right to know. Publishing IP addresses would allow all sorts of mischief to be accomplished including impersonating a member of the City Attorney's office on line. And this all assumes the city attorney's office computers have static, not dynamic IP addresses. Finally, Sainz presumably was not authorized or competent to make a decision on a PRA request.

Posted by Ian Trowbridge | reply to this comment
April 23, 2008 7:33 pm

Billy Bob: Lets see if you can answer this straight and simple question. If IP addresses for city employees are released, would it reveal that some of your posts at this site and others come out of a computer at City Attorney's Office? Because I would bet $100 that they do.

Posted by Sam | reply to this comment
April 23, 2008 8:09 pm

My wife just said Ooh...That makes me like Sanders! // This folks is what there is to like about Mayor Sanders.

Posted by Christopher Hall | reply to this comment
April 23, 2008 9:12 pm

Jerry Sanders is justifiably upset that Steve Francis is again trying to buy the election. Sanders' F word remark was meant for Francis only and Sanders is honest enough to acknowledge saying it after Francis decided to use the comment as political fodder. I wish the press would spend more time insisting Francis release his water consumption bills from his estate, especially after he had previously promised to do so. I'm getting tired of the frequent Francis TV ads that speak only in generalities and offer nothing of substance and why does Francis think its OK to use small city litter baskets to throw away phone book sized copies of budgets? Does he think the City can afford to collect his oversized litter from those smmall baskets 2 or 3 X a day? Sanders proved himself as TopCop, United Way & Red Cross CEO, & as Mayor. FUSteve.

Posted by District 3 sufferer | reply to this comment
April 23, 2008 9:36 pm

Does Fred Sainz go by the username "District 3 sufferer" by any chance? Let's face it -- Sanders' biggest claim to fame is that he's a nice guy. Now I guess the real Jerry Sanders has finally broken through.

Posted by Haydn Harbour | reply to this comment
April 23, 2008 10:49 pm

Does Fred Sainz go by the username "District 3 sufferer" by any chance? Let's face it -- Sanders' biggest claim to fame is that he's a nice guy. Now I guess the real Jerry Sanders has finally broken through.

Posted by Haydn Harbour | reply to this comment
April 23, 2008 10:49 pm

It's hard not to like Sanders for his eff u comment. Steve Francis is like Richie Rich, or maybe more like the kid who stole Pee-Wee Herman's bike in Pee-Wee's Big Adventure. 'I wanna be mayor, and I want it NOW!!!'. Go ahead Steve, hold your breath till your face turns blue. Your beliefs appear to run exactly as deep as your expensive polling tells you they should. I hope that Labor and the Environmental community will see that Francis' commitment to their causes is equally deep. Why should Sanders give any respect to this cheeseball who trashes his long record of public service with endless, mindless TV ads? FU is right on the mark.

Posted by Simple Guy | reply to this comment
April 23, 2008 10:58 pm

10. Sam wrote on April 23, 2008 8:09 PM: "Billy Bob: If IP addresses for city employees are released, would it reveal that some of your posts at this site and others come out of a computer at City Attorney's Office? Because I would bet $100 that they do."..... I do not work for the City. I do not know anyone City employee at any City office, incluidng the CA's office. Sorry to disappoint you Sam. HTH.

Posted by Billy Bob Henry | reply to this comment
April 23, 2008 11:07 pm

Sanders public persona may be one of a a "nice guy" but privately he's an arrogant manipulator. He claims frustration. I’d say his colorful use of the English language is merely an indicator of the REAL Jerry Sanders. If VOSD checks his record at the PD you’ll find an entire spectrum of opinions about his so-called leadership skills. One tactic, less publicized, was litigating his way through the promotional process on multiple occasions. The irony of it all, once he became Chief, he used the identical flawed processes to select his own cronies to build support.

Posted by Just Wondering | reply to this comment
April 24, 2008 6:04 am

Donna, where are you now that we really need you - to run for mayor of this messed-up burg. It appears that "None of the Above" will win the mayoral contest, just remember to fill in the bubble.

Posted by Buddy in Mission Valley | reply to this comment
April 24, 2008 7:02 am

I am tired of watching Steve Fraincis calls himself an INDEPENDENT on his TV commercials. Every time he comes around I offer him a voter registration form to register as an independent, he declines!

Posted by Independent?? | reply to this comment
April 24, 2008 7:17 am

Watching Jerry Sanders on the TV news last night explaining what drove him to say FU to Steve Francis reminded me of raising two children. "He called me a caretaker!" Maybe Francis should have retorted, "He looked at me!" Many of us use the F word in the normal course of things (me more than most but not in a business setting), but it's not the word so much as the setting that's of concern. The race is an opportunity for dialogue and debate and it should be a professional atmosphere. If Sanders doesn't like the "caretaker" moniker, then he should explain to the voting public why that's an inappropriate label.

Posted by Get A Clue | reply to this comment
April 24, 2008 8:05 am

I don't care how upset Sanders is with Francis. If he's a gentleman, he can suck up and shake hands. Can you image in a debate of Clinton and Obama and Clinton said FU to Obama? That would be a killer for her. Sanders is rolly polly. Everyone likes a rolly polly guy to have a few beers with and shoot the hay. Francis is a self made man (like him or not). I suspect because he can fund his own election and doesn't need to suck up to special interests for cash, there is some jealousy on Sanders end. That's human but when your in the public eye, and your that rolly polly guy and FU comes out ...it's a turnoff. PERIOD

Posted by Norman | reply to this comment
April 24, 2008 8:31 am

#12'...justifiably upset because Francis is again trying to buy the election'--is Sanders mad that his downtown buddies are using their funds to try to cram their charter reforms through? I'm not saying I'm voting for Francis; I'll probably be voting against someone, as is often the case, not for someone. Meanwhile, I love Trowbridge's blog; it's another source of local government info, that is hard to get in this town.

Posted by Steve K | reply to this comment
April 24, 2008 9:00 am

Sanders made a comment to Steve Francis; Francis staffers put it out with the intent of smearing Sanders; POLITICS. Francis wants to play nice in public and expect the same of Sanders; behind closed doors conduct "push polling" and smear Sanders with half truths and lies; POLITICS. Fred Sainz is asked about the comment and denies it ever occurred; DISHONESTY. The problem is Fred Sainz and Sanders' allowing this person to continue to lie and spin the truth; POLITICS. When will Sanders stop trying to play politics and fire Sainz? I would not shake Francis' hand either; he is too slimy for me; Might even make the same comment Sanders made; Francis has shown his true colors and maybe this is what it has taken for Sanders' true colors to be shown too; POLITICS.

Posted by Sparky | reply to this comment
April 24, 2008 9:28 am

Sanders is losing it. He can't take pressure. He retired as Police Chief due to stress and it's a lot more stressful now. And Sainz is a lying joke. Yesterday he said Sanders absolutely did not curse. What's his story today? Throw them both out.

Posted by Larry | reply to this comment
April 24, 2008 10:02 am

While Jerry's public use of the"f" word was an error in judgement, I think he is fully justified in his anger. Francis is not only guilty of accusations about Jerry's integrity, he is also guilty of harassment of us with his constant political advertisements. Once more he tries to buy his way into office. I find this disgusting and repugnant - that he would think we are naive enough to elect him only because he is so rich he can buy the office of Mayor. Get off the airwaves, Steve, and get out to meet real people, not those pretty people hired to perform in your ads.

Posted by Mischel | reply to this comment
April 24, 2008 10:11 am

The personal attacks on the Mayor are simply ridiculous,however,M Sainz has been in need of a vacation for sometime and that's not news to anyone whose been paying attention,especially the Press corps.I'd recommend Maurice Luque as an alternative. The Mayor needs a PR person with an unblemished record to move forward and beyond the push polling and nonsense that's being cast his way from the psuedo-independent and his legions of paid minions. It's time for a healthy change. The 60% popularity rating needs to be preserved,imho.

Posted by Jack Griffiths | reply to this comment
April 24, 2008 10:28 am

It seems like Sainz, who's supposed to be managing negative publicity, always manages to get Sanders in deeper. So why do they keep him? Imagine, if you will, what kind of negative stuff Sainz must actually be keeping under wraps if he can screw up so publicly and still keep his job! He must really know where the bodies are buried -- and they're probably scared to unleash him. All that said, I love the fact that Sanders came clean on his ungentlemanly behavior. He should have been a bigger person and shook Francis' hand, sure -- but who among us hasn't had an indiscreet moment like that? It probably works in Sanders' favor by bolstering his regular-guy image as well as making Francis look like a bit of a prissy, whiny baby. Come to think of it, wonder if that strategy was master-minded by Sainz??? Brilliant.

Posted by Can Sainz? | reply to this comment
April 24, 2008 11:06 am

C'mon Jerry. Guilt by association, it may not be right but it is reality. Should you earn the voters confidence in 2008 for another term, then it is time to clean up your own house and really show us what you can accomplish.

Posted by Just Wondering | reply to this comment
April 24, 2008 11:09 am

I love this Mayor. Francis is a ken doll with money and nothing to do but try to buy an election. Sanders is a man of integrity and I am proud to have him as my mayor.

Posted by sdsteve | reply to this comment
April 24, 2008 1:52 pm

Well this clinches it for me. I'M VOTING FOR JERRY!!!!!

Posted by Dimples | reply to this comment
April 24, 2008 3:42 pm

Here's the real issue. Sainz may work for the mayor; but, his wages are paid for by the citizens of SD. Sainz has lied to the citizens of SD ad nauseum. It appears that the only way to get rid of Fred Sainz is to fire Jerry Sanders. Why should the citizens of our city be forced to pay high wages for a documented liar? If Sanders wants to use some offensive language during a campaign then why does Fred feel the compulsion to lie about it? Sanders' colorful language is the least of my concerns. It is the continual misrepresentation of facts by his administration that is the most offensive. Also, I happened to attend the Sunday mayoral forum. It was a hoot. Jerry named poet Robert Frost as his most inspirational environmental author. Clueless and priceless.

Posted by Torrey Pines | reply to this comment
April 24, 2008 5:39 pm

O'K Sam. I give up. I do work at the CA's office. Normally, I'd be busy bashing our police officers and firefighters, but my ridilin is making me feel better about myself today.

Posted by Billy Bob Henry | reply to this comment
April 24, 2008 8:47 pm

32. Billy Bob Henry wrote on April 24, 2008 8:47 PM: "O'K Sam. I give up. I do work at the CA's office. Normally, I'd be busy bashing our police officers and firefighters, but my ridilin is making me feel better about myself today......Hey bonehead-get your own handle and STOP using mine, this one is taken.

Posted by Billy Bob Henry | reply to this comment
April 25, 2008 11:34 am

Torrey Pines has a valid point. Our taxes pay Mr. Sainz salary. But Mayor Sanders ignores Sainz's ethical lapses over and over again. So I'm just wondering Mr. Mayor, are ethics and the ethical behavior of your closest advisors something you really care about? Or is it really just all politics and win at any cost? Is this the REAL reason for Ms. Froman's hasty departure from your administration?

Posted by Just Wondering | reply to this comment
April 25, 2008 11:55 am

Of course that's why Froman left! She's a practical, problem-solver type, and that office does EVERYTHING for the optimal political outcome regardless of practical value. Sainz might be a brilliant political strategist, but he needs to make himself scarce. He's been caught in too many lies and linguistic indiscretions.

Posted by Can Sainz? | reply to this comment
April 25, 2008 1:24 pm

"I want my mommy! He said FU." These two should be reminded that they are not running for Presdident of the United States. Stick to the issues.

Posted by Raul of San Diego | reply to this comment
April 25, 2008 5:13 pm

Just Wondering wrote on April 24, 2008 6:04 AM: "One tactic, less publicized, was (Jerry Sanders)litigating his way through the promotional process on multiple occasions." I thought everyone knew that Jerry sued or threatened to sue claiming "reverse discrimination" to get promoted while at the police department....

Posted by Buried Information - | reply to this comment
April 26, 2008 7:25 am

Why do people glorify Ronnie Froman? She bailed on the citizens and employees. She knew about the back-room deals and the ethical misconduct and she could have told the truth and helped make things better. But she DID NOT! It was her obligation to tell the truth -blow the whistle - fire the scroundels - change the way the city is run at the top management level. Maybe a good soldier keeps her mouth shut but she wasn't a soldier - she was hired to be a trusted public servant. Her reputation is forever tainted because she had an ethical duty to tell the truth. She choose NOT to tell the people what was going on. Instead she retreated with secrets and lies.

Posted by Froman's Folly | reply to this comment
April 26, 2008 8:06 am

Why do you avoid my question? Mr. Flannery, why are you afraid of allowing comments on your website? I contend you know that your supposedly source-based accusations will crumble under the weight of all the facts - the true facts. Explain it, or accept the challenge and allow comments. I look forward to having a field day with you and your half-truths. And Ian, will you join me in encouraging your kindred spirit? You seem to enjoy the airing of differences. What is your position?

Posted by Ian and Flannery!!! | reply to this comment
April 26, 2008 9:47 am

Rick Amato's blog on the subject of the F bomb is very interesting. link

Posted by La Playa Heritage | reply to this comment
April 26, 2008 1:54 pm

1) Maybe Mayor Sanders is crude and rude because he's going through menopause. No handshake? Poor form. His days are numbered. 2) Ronne Froman was a double-dipping high-salaried opportunist at Alan Bersin's School District and she was ditto at the City. When the going gets tough, she always goes away. Good riddance. 3) Why on earth would blogger Pat Flannery want to waste his time answering blog comments? He is a remarkable one-man band and need not put up with such charming correspondents as BBH and Edgar and some others who regularly post here.

Posted by Fed Up | reply to this comment
April 27, 2008 7:54 pm

Fed Up........"put up with such charming correspondents as BBH".... I LOVE it!

Posted by Billy Bob Henry | reply to this comment
April 28, 2008 8:33 am

Sainz seems to be at the center of another "foul language" violation! Sanders, is Sainz the best you can hire for such a prominent position in the City? Is this another example of your poor judgement, or are you just afraid to fire him? Professionalism is what the citizens of San Diego expect from the City's employees. Is it okay for members of your Water Department, Police Department or Building Department to say "FU" in person or an email to a resident of San Diego? You seem to taking a position similar Bill Clinton, in you feel you're above having to tell the truth, act with professionalism and/or demand that your employees do the same. The Emperor has no clothes on these issues, what is his judgement like? The Voters will answer!

Posted by Raul of San Diego | reply to this comment
April 28, 2008 4:31 pm

It has nothing to do with Mr.Flannery "wasting his time" answering comments. He doesn't need to answer the comments any more than Scott Lewis does. The point is that he is afraid of commentators exposing his inaccuracies. If he wasn't, he'd allow comments.

Posted by Say, Fed Up | reply to this comment
April 28, 2008 4:47 pm

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